It’s time to unveil crayon

Updated on October 31, 2006

crayon, a new marketing company

The teasing is done and it’s time to get specific about the new company I’m now part of alongside founder Joseph Jaffe, veteran communicator Shel Holtz and podcasting pioneer CC Chapman.

The new company is called crayon and will be fully open for business this coming Thursday October 26 when we launch from Crayonville Island, our headquarters in Second Life that’s been under construction during the past few months.

So the first thing to tell you is that crayon is a both a real and a virtual company.

We’re real, in the sense that all of us involved are physical, real human beings based in real locations, on the US east and west coasts plus me here in Europe.

We start with an outstanding team in addition to the four of us – Gary Cohen, Aaron Greenberger, Chris Trela and Michael Denton. These names may not be familiar to you at the moment, but they soon will be.

We’re virtual, in the sense that our primary presence as a company is the three-dimensional online digital world of Second Life where we will conduct our business, our presentations, our brainstorms and our pitches.

And by the way, when we launch on Thursday, we will be the first company to be launched in Second Life.

The second thing to let you know is what crayon actually is.

We’re not an agency nor a consulting practice as is traditionally defined. What we are is whatever you want or need us to be.

I like to think of us as a true mash-up that combines the best in traditional and new thinking about marketing, advertising and PR.

We’re a solution provider. We’re an extension of your team. Consider us a new breed of partner – one that keeps everyone honest and on the right path. Our client is not the consumer: our client is the truth.

Our methodology pivots around conversation and transformation above communication. Our value proposition is designed to activate passions, enthusiasm, organic dialogue and no-strings-attached referrals and recommendations.

When Joseph approached me some three months ago to be part of this new venture, I could see immediately that here was a terrific opportunity to join forces with someone visionary who I’ve been paying attention to for a long time.

So I made my decision pretty quickly to join Joseph in creating something special that would enable us to work with marketers, advertisers and public relations professionals that will enable them to better understand the tremendous changes, challenges and opportunities in today’s complex world of fragmented attention, increasing consumer control and hardening attitudes towards traditional marketing and communication.

We think we have something compelling to offer that will enable every client to do what every business really wants – get to the future. First.

If you’d like to blog or podcast about crayon, I’d be thrilled if you would! Let me know if you need more information. Bookmark our website – www.crayonville.com – which will be live on Thursday.

And if you do want to know more about crayon before our launch, each of us is willing to talk to you at any time during the coming week. If you’d like to interview Joseph, or any one of the team, let me know directly or leave a comment here.

Looking forward to helping you get to your future first.

[Update Oct 23 @ 09:40] Joseph, Shel and CC have also posted about crayon. Theirs went up late last night my time.

I’ve been amazed by the reactions to our news plus the sheer volume of warmth coming our way from friends in the blogosphere. Thanks, everyone. You’ve set the expectation bar high indeed and we won’t let you down.

Neville Hobson

Social Strategist, Communicator, Writer, and Podcaster with a curiosity for tech and how people use it. Believer in an Internet for everyone. Early adopter (and leaver) and experimenter with social media. Occasional test pilot of shiny new objects. Avid tea drinker.

  1. Hugh Fraser

    Best of Luck with Crayon – Some great talent assembled here – and I’m sure you will do very well, and generally benefit everyone working in social media. I’l certainly be mentioning you over at Blog Relations shortly, to try help get the word out. Look forward to the Second Life launch.

  2. Open (finds, minds, conversations)...

    Social Media supergroup agency founded: Crayon…

    Enough with the talking already, there’s a revolution in media and culture in full swing and its high time people started putting their money where their mouth is. If you’re in media or marketing then you should at this moment…

  4. Dave

    Wow, amazing news. Saw a picture of you all in SL on one of the other guy’s blogs – amazingly realistic.

    It will be interesting to see how the SL aspect of the business develops. Keep us all updated!

  5. Blog Relations » Blog Archive » Crayon

    […] Crayon is a venture between Neville Hobson, Shel Holz, Joseph Jaffe, and CC Chapman. All are great communicators in the social media sphere. I like their motto, Our client is not the consumer, it’s the truth. The only trouble with this motto is, of course, that not everyone sees the same truth. Still, I think we know what they mean. The recent Edelman saga shows what it is not. My own motto at the moment is “The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.” […]

  6. Techcrunch » Blog Archive » Crayon Claims To Be First SecondLife Company

    […] And now Crayon is launching later this week, claiming to be the first company to be launched in SecondLife. They will be a virtual consulting firm, facilitating “conversation and transformation above communication. Our value proposition is designed to activate passions, enthusiasm, organic dialogue and no-strings-attached referrals and recommendations.” If Crayon can turn that marketing-speak into understandable advice and guidance to companies looking to leverage SecondLife as a marketing or sales channel, they may find being one of the first to set up shop is a big advantage. […]

  8. Basic Thinking Blog » Second Life: gründe virtuell, verkaufe virtuell

    […] Techcrunch: With all of this real money floating around the SecondLife economy, look for more businesses to set up shop. And look for other companies to be selling advice to these new businesses. Crayon is launching later this week, claiming to be the first company to be launched in SecondLife. They will be a virtual consulting firm, facilitating “conversation and transformation above communication. Our value proposition is designed to activate passions, enthusiasm, organic dialogue and no-strings-attached referrals and recommendations.” If Crayon can turn that marketing-speak into understandable advice and guidance to companies looking to leverage SecondLife as a marketing or sales channel, they may find being one of the first to set up shop is a big advantage. […]

  9. Alex Manchester

    Congratulations and best of luck on your new venture, Neville (and Co.). Now I understand a little more how you were describing it on Wednesday!

    it will be interesting to see how it develops, especially – as others have said – in Second Life.

  11. Drew B's take on tech PR

    Virtual social media group launches in Second Life…

    Blogger Neville Hobson just emailed me to say he’s teamed up with three like-minded individuals to launch a venture named Crayon. Their office will be in the virtual world of my client Second Life, and the launch will be on…

  12. Giff Constable

    “And by the way, when we launch on Thursday, we will be the first company to be launched in Second Life.”

    Neville, Neville… what on earth are you talking about? Not only are their countless of entrepreneurial ventures created in Second Life creating and selling virtual products, but there already are a slew of consulting companies that act as advisors to brands, corporate, non-profit and educational efforts in Second Life. That list includes The Electric Sheep Company (which I am a part of), Rivers Run Red (the true “first” RL advisory company to set up in SL), Millions of Us, Infinite Vision Media, Aimee Weber Studios and many more.

    I am sure you guys are differentiating yourselves in interesting ways, and we may be quite complementary. I am a big fan of your team, and expect great things from you. I very much welcome your presence. But in the wake of CC’s response to my blog post talking about these overblown “first” claims (http://blogs.electricsheepcompany.com/giff/?p=116) I find this very odd indeed.

  15. neville

    Everyone, thanks very much indeed for your support and warm words. We plan to live up to your expectations!

    Giff, I’m always leery about claims of being first at anything. Inevitably open to challenge, as you have, even if you’re sure of your facts.

    However, our research indicates that crayon will be the first company to launch in Second Life. The operative word is ‘launch.’ There are indeed loads of companies who have opened virtual offices in SL. None of them has actually launched their businesses there.

    It’s a crucial difference.

  16. Shel Holtz

    The other crucial difference is that we’re a company outside of SL in addition to inside. An in-world company launching in-world is one thing, a company that will do business outside of SL — business that has no relationship to SL at all — is quite another! Perhaps we should have said “non-in-world company.”

  17. Crayon Launches in SecondLife | The Last Podcast

    […] Apparently it is time to unveil Crayon, a new company founded by “Joseph Jaffe, veteran communicator Shel Holtz and podcasting pioneer CC Chapman.” For the life of me, though, I can not figure out what this company is really  supposed to be besides a marketing company with an office in SecondLife and outside of SecondLife. We’re not an agency nor a consulting practice as is traditionally defined. What we are is whatever you want or need us to be. I like to think of us as a true mash-up that combines the best in traditional and new thinking about marketing, advertising and PR. […]

  19. Giff Constable

    Neville, I will say that both Electric Sheep and Millions of Us did launch in Second Life, but I’m gonna stop there cause I’m really not here to spoil your fun. Starting a company is fun! So I really don’t want to split hairs on this stuff — it’s silly. It is definitely true that while Electric Sheep works with other virtual world technologies outside of Second Life (like MTV’s Virtual Laguna Beach project), you are right that we are primarily focused on virtual worlds and not general marketing, branding, or PR work. I actually really like working hand in hand with marketing, branding, and PR companies because we complement each other well.

    Congratulations again on the launch fellows. Exciting days ahead and I’m looking forward to the unveiling of the crayon island!

  20. Erin Caldwell’s PRblog » FINALLY caught up on my feeds

    […] And my third item for this evening … the big announcement from the Fantastic Four. (Hat tip to Ed Lee — very clever.) CC Chapman, Neville Hobson, Shel Holtz and Joseph Jaffe team up to create “crayon.” From Shel: “What makes us different is that Joseph assembled us based on our passion for new media and the fact that we already live and breathe it. We sleep it. We eat it for lunch. And ultimately, that’s what motivated me to accept Joe’s offer and join crayon: the opportunity to work exclusively on these types of projects and the opportunity to work with this particular collection of people.” […]

  21. Michael Buckbee

    Neville,

    I’m all for you and your team launching in SecondLife, but I think you side-stepped the first part of Giff’s question.

    “How can you in any way, shape or form claim to be the first company to launch in SecondLife when there are literally thousands of companies selling virtual goods and real services within SecondLife?”

    Like I said, I think it’s a great idea for your team to be involved, but your claim that you’re the first seems like an insult to the literally thousands of users who’ve broken the trail for you and the dozens of pioneering companies already doing real virtual work within SecondLife.

  22. Michael Seaton

    Neville,
    You are the remaining 25% of Crayon that I have yet to meet in person. All the best with your new venture and I look forward to seeing what you guys do as a team.

  23. AttentionMax

    Mash-Up: Joe Jaffe, Neville Hobson, Shel Holtz, CC Chapman…

     Joe Jaffe officialy announced his new "crayon" agency with Neville Hobson, Shel Holtz, CC Chapman and others. Good luck, guys!  ……

  25. Dominic Jones

    Congratulations. Seems interesting and timely for a launch of this type of company. Web 2.0 logo, SL launch and a bit of controversy to start things off.

    This line stuck out for me:

    “Consider us a new breed of partner – one that keeps everyone honest and on the right path. Our client is not the consumer: our client is the truth.”

    I smiled when I read the comments. First to launch.

    Truth is so nuanced.

  28. Terry Fallis

    Hey Neville. We’re all thrilled for you and Shel (and JJ and CC for that matter). We’ll be following your success as you once again blaze a new trail. Here’s hoping we can work together. And best of all, FIR is continuing! All the best…

  32. TechCrunch en français » Crayon la première société dédiée à Second Life

    […] On peut s’attendre avec ces chiffres à voir des nouveaux business fleurir sur SecondLife. Et d’autres sociétés viendront vendre leur prestation de conseil sur le sujet. Crayon ouvrira en fin de semaine et se positionnant comme la première société à exister au sein de Second Life. Il s’agira d’une société de conseil pour gérer des opérations de communications et de marketing. Leur offre est encore théorique mais s’ils peuvent traduire cela en actions concrètes pour aider les marques et les sociétés à investir dans Second Life alors ils auront un atout important. […]

  34. TechCrunch Japanese アーカイブ » Crayon、SecondLifeビジネス1番乗りへ

    […] SecondLife経済にこれだけのリアルなお金が出回っているのだから、店を出して、もっとビジネスしようと考える人がいるだろう。さらには、この新ビジネスのためのアドバイスを売る会社のことも見てみよう。Crayon は今週ローンチ予定で、SecondLifeの中でローンチする初めての会社だと 言っている。「コミュニケーションに基づく会話と変化。当社の提案は、情熱、熱狂、基本的な対話を活性化するもので、紹介や推薦のしがらみはない」というバーチャルなコンサルティング会社だ。Crayonがこのマーケティングトークを、 SecondLifeをマーケティングや販売チャネルとして活用しようとしている会社への、理解しやすいアドバイスや指針に変えることができれば、早期参入は大きなアドバンテージになるだろう。 […]

  35. james

    Hey nev.
    nice surprise. i have got an assignment for you. The people of the world would like to hire you to find out “the truth” on their political leaders and political parties and resource allocation, and whether we should fire most of them, and collectively redesign the whole system. We would like to offer you payment via a peer payment system, let’s say, $1.00 per citizen. i know it’s a big assignment so perhaps you could wait until you grow a little and expand or redesign your code to enable this to be possible.
    james

  36. Stephen Davies

    I’ve just had a terrible thought. What if Crayon really takes off, Shel and Neville are inundated with work and can no longer continue with For Immediate Release.

    Then what are we going to do?

    :-)

  40. Emergence Marketing

    A new agency in town……

    I got a message this weekend from Shel Holtz that he and Neville Hobson are joining Joe Jaffe to found a new type of marketing agency, called crayon. Their stated goal is to “integrate the best of the consulting, agency,……

  43. Clickable Culture

    Outside Businesses Revising 'Second Life' History…

    Have we learned nothing from real-world history? Ages ago, imperialists planted their flags on "New World" soil, claiming to have discovered virgin territory, oblivious to the natives peering out cautiously from the treeline. Indigenous p…

  44. Michael Buckbee

    Just out of curiousity, I did a couple searches on Google and Yahoo! for “SecondLife” and “Launch Party” and some derivations of that and found that if that was the extent of your research that you’d probably feel pretty confident in your claim to being first.

    Other than wandering around and asking people: “Hey, has anyone ever launched a business in SecondLife before?” I have no good answers on how someone could find out these sorts of things.

    I know when I first started with SecondLife I kept trying to Google for help with the built in scripting language to absolutely no effect and it wasn’t until someone sent me the link to the internal (non-googleable) Scripting Wiki that I was able to make any headway.

  46. Scott M.

    “I have no good answers on how someone could find out these sorts of things.”

    By talking to Glenn Fisher who is the Director of Developer Programs at Linden Lab. As a company doing business in Second Life signing up for the Developer Program and keeping in touch with Linden Lab is a no-brainer. This isn’t a matter of not being able to find out, Michael, it’s PR.

  47. Stuart Bruce

    Neville et al, congrats on the new venture. I look forward to hearing more about it.

    Stephen – if lack of time means FIR gets a bit shorter then I’ll be even happier as I’ll at last be able to listen to all of them ;)

  48. Tomorrow’s Newsroom » Blog Archive » Second Life as a test ground for digital media

    […] And, perhaps most significantly of all, Joseph Jaffe, C.C. Chapman, Neville Hobson and Shel Holtz are the first to found a company completely within Second Life called crayon. Neville notes that crayon is “both a real and a virtual company,” which will be housed on Crayonville Island in Second Life, but will operate in the real world as “a true mash-up that combines the best in traditional and new thinking about marketing, advertising and PR.” […]

  50. Ron Blechner

    Hi there, Neville.

    >> Our methodology pivots around conversation and transformation above communication.

    I’m so happy to hear this! I would love to speak with you and welcome you to the rich, growing developer community in Second Life! Since you folks are so interested in conversation and communication, I’d like to take this chance to open up dialog.

    Because this is such a new, budding industry, there are some efforts a number of us have undertaken to help promote and grow this industry, create standards, and share information valuable to all companies.

    We have a site, http://sldevelopers.com/ – with a forums dedicated to providing a medium for developers to interact. We also have a Focus Group I’d like to invite you to consider taking part in, that aims to provide valuable feedback about what practices work and don’t work with metaverse development. Some info here: http://sldevelopers.com/forums/thread/794.aspx

    Best of luck with your launch!

  51. Open The Dialogue

    All that’s missing is “Burnt Sienna”…

    Joseph Jaffe never lacks for audacity. Truly one of the more innovative thinkers around in this day and age, I’m convinced Jaffe never stops thinking new media, even when cutting grass, playing with his kids or staring out the window……

  53. Color With Crayon at A Media Circus

    […] Instead of expanding on crayon myself, I’m going to direct you to three of the new crayons, my good friends Neville Hobson and Shel Holtz, who as you probably know are co-hosts of the popular PR podcast For Immediate Release, and podcasting music pioneer and all-around good guy, C.C. Chapman. They do a pretty damn fine job explaining everything on their own blogs. […]

  57. Rough Type: Nicholas Carr's Blog

    Does the truth pay its invoices on time?…

    So there’s this new company named crayon (not Crayon, mind you, but crayon), and its claim to fame is that its offices are located on Crayonville Island in the imaginary world of Second Life. Ok, fine. You’ve got to have a shtick, and you can’t get …

  58. Crayon Claims To Be First SecondLife Company « BIG Interactive

    […] With all of this real money floating around the SecondLife economy, look for more businesses to set up shop. And look for other companies to be selling advice to these new businesses. Crayon is launching later this week, claiming to be the first company to be launched in SecondLife. They will be a virtual consulting firm, facilitating “conversation and transformation above communication. Our value proposition is designed to activate passions, enthusiasm, organic dialogue and no-strings-attached referrals and recommendations.” If Crayon can turn that marketing-speak into understandable advice and guidance to companies looking to leverage SecondLife as a marketing or sales channel, they may find being one of the first to set up shop is a big advantage. […]

  61. Drew Stein

    As someone who has had the pleasure of knowing Joe Jaffe on and off over the last 2 years through both the Soflow network and my Digerati group, let me welcome you! Joe, come on in, the water’s fine. Of course, as CEO of a Metaverse development company doing ALL our work bringing RL brands into SL, and living entirely by the motto “don’t sell me, play with me,” I also have to take issue (as others have here) with the notion that Crayon represents some kind of a “first.” That said, let’s touch base and talk about ways we might collaborate. I highly value what you bring to the table and look forward to seeing if there are ways IVM and Crayon can work together to inititate conversations between our clients’ brands and their core constituencies.

    You can reach me @ drew@infinitevisionmedia.com

  62. David Topping

    Hmmm…. Don’t know what second life is, don’t much care. I do wish you every success, you’re still the single most effective corporate communicator I’ve met or even heard of. Hope to work with you again.

    All the best.

    D

  63. Paull Young

    Neville,

    I’m a bit late to the party here – but congratulations!

    The annoucement of your upcoming launch made me bite the bullet and finally join Second Life, I’m hoping I’ll be able to attend on Thursday.

    Best wishes.

  64. jeneane

    “What we are is whatever you want or need us to be.”

    I need you to be one who can get a Blogger/Google Support person on the case to fix my five-year-old, 4000-plus post blog, which I’ve been unable to publish to for going on five days due to the beta-blogger-mashup blogspot-plus-killer migration that’s going on, I guess.

    THAT is who I need you to be. Then I can chime in on this development in the world of PR and Social Marketing.

    Thank you.

  65. Dennis Howlett

    “What we are is whatever you want or need us to be.” – Ok – brain surgeons this week, bridge designers next and i’ll have fries to go with that my burger order.

    And then:
    “Our client is not the consumer: our client is the truth.”

    Wow – I believe, I believe, I believe you’s trying to kid me.

    As David says: pass whatever dope you’re smoking over here.

    Sorry Neville – absolutely don’t get it. But then marketing’s never been something I’d pretend to understand so well.

  66. Tabita

    Congratulations Neville – I wish you all the best with your new venture, it sounds exciting! Might meet you in second life at the launch party…

  67. neville

    Thanks, everyone. Quite a few questions in here which I hope to address in a separate post soon. Giff, that will include some comment about this whole ‘first’ thing. Eric Rice had a good commentary about that.

    Re FIR, Stephen and Stuart, we’ve actually been pretty good at keeping show length to an hour or so. Until yesterday’s edition :)

    David T, good to hear from you. Thanks for your warm words even if you don’t know what SL is.

    Just believe, Dennis!

    Tabita, thanks, and good luck to you with your new venture.

  68. AccMan / Second Life, furry penises and PR

    […] Some may have heard of Second Life, a virtual community that apparently includes furry penises. Latest addition is a blog colleague Neville Hobson (PR type but a nice one) who’s setting up some sort of marketing shop in Second Life. OK – so it’s a stunt right? Apparently not. […]

  69. RV

    “Our methodology pivots around conversation and transformation above communication. Our value proposition is designed to activate passions, enthusiasm, organic dialogue and no-strings-attached referrals and recommendations.”

    hmmm .looks like another BS compliant startup ….

  72. What Color is Your Expert Social Media Guru? « Observations of Public Relations

    […] By now you’ve heard (unless you live under a blogosphere rock, i.e. are offline) that all our favorite podcasters have joined together to form an honest to goodness virtual company focusing on all aspects of communication.  Instead of offering social media as an afterthought, crayon will be incorporating every strategic tool at its disposal to fit the needs of its clients. […]

  74. Clarence Jones

    Belated but sincere congratulations to All Crayonites…er, crayonians…,er,crayolas, opps flapdoodle with a side order of lawsuit on that last one.
    I’m happy for y’all, and wish you the best.
    Love & Peace, Clarence

  75. Armand Winthorp

    Congrats! I’m looking forward to this.

    Lets hope that the grid stays open long enough for more than 24 consecutive hours so you can do what you do!

  76. Serge

    A bit late, but nevertheless many congrats. Sounds like an excellent topic for a presentation at a symposium, btw. Mmmm… isn’t that a coincidence: we are actually organising one in March 2007 in Ghent. And am I right in presuming you could be convinced in coming over? I’m sure by then you’ll have lots of sotries to tell already :-) . Good luck with Crayon!

  77. Simon Wakeman

    Crayon launching in Second Life…

    Just a quick post to wish the best of luck to the founders of Crayon with their official launch in Second Life on Thursday.

    ……

  78. Simon Wakeman

    Hi Neville,

    As I just blogged on my site, many congratulations on the exciting adventure that is Crayon.

    I’ll be watching with interest, and hope we can all continue to learn from you and the team as we have so far with your respective blogs and podcasts.

    Your contribution so far to social media and the development of new PR/marketing cannot be underestimated.

    All the best,
    sw

  79. The Zone Read » Blog Archive » A New Marketing Firm Opens In Super Addictive Second Life

    […] A foursome of prolific bloggers and podcasters — Joseph Jaffe, Neville Hobson , Shel Holtz, C.C. Chapman — are starting a “new marketing” agency called Crayon which will be based in Crayonville Island, Second Life, the virtual world. Neville’s post on Crayon was the clearest. This new company sounds a little crazy and very stimulating. I’m looking forward to checking out their new virtual digs and learning more about their plans. […]

  80. Making Final Prep

    […] It’s certainly been a roller-coaster of a week since we trickled out our news about crayon on Sunday with blog posts by Joseph, CC, Shel and me. The subsequent blogosphere buzz has been spectalcular. The outpouring of warmth from our friends in the communication space – advertsing, marketing and PR – has really been overwhelming. […]

  83. Naik’s News » Crayon Claims To Be First SecondLife Company

    […] With all of this real money floating around the SecondLife economy, look for more businesses to set up shop. And look for other companies to be selling advice to these new businesses. Crayon is launching later this week, claiming to be the first company to be launched in SecondLife. They will be a virtual consulting firm, facilitating “conversation and transformation above communication. Our value proposition is designed to activate passions, enthusiasm, organic dialogue and no-strings-attached referrals and recommendations.” If Crayon can turn that marketing-speak into understandable advice and guidance to companies looking to leverage SecondLife as a marketing or sales channel, they may find being one of the first to set up shop is a big advantage. […]

  87. Interdependent Thoughts

    Big Brother Huis in Second Life…

    Second Life (SL) is in de laatste weken regelmatig onderwerp van aankondigingen. Zo opende Reuters onlangs een kantoor in SL, hebben Adidas en Toyota er een vestiging geopend, en openen bedrijven die irl zonder fysieke kantoorruimte werken er een virtu…

  88. enrique g cubillo

    Congratulations on your new endeavor and approach. In the mean time I was curious if there might be interested parties in the marketing advertising space willing to listen to a marketing plan that entails pitching advertisers on social change? In other words brand association with MOTHERS LOVE. i.e. advertiser generates a public policy that brings a smile to a MOTHER by way of education modalities their children follow, love and gobble up with big smiles on their faces. One last thing, the policy lasts the duration of the child’s life.

    Those who are curious will need to give me face time in NYC. Face time is the only way to pitch this one I am afraid.

    Thanks and good luck

    Enrique G. Cubillo
    212 243 9601
    Advocate for social change via marketing and advertising
    Money Moves Markets & Minds, Move Wisely & Nicely

  89. Young PR » Blog Archive » PR/Advertising/Marketing Agencies in Second Life

    […] crayon have copped a lot of flak for claiming to be the first company to officially launch in Second Life. Where crayon differs to the other agencies – they actually work in the space. The island is impressive, and I’ve teleported there a few times to find people engaged in interesting conversation. Heck, this afternoon I was in the crayonville auditorium having a chat with a bloke from Alaska about Wagga Wagga! […]

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