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	<title>Comments on: Banning &#8216;coterminous stakeholder engagement&#8217;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.nevillehobson.com/2008/02/10/banning-coterminous-stakeholder-engagement/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.nevillehobson.com/2008/02/10/banning-coterminous-stakeholder-engagement/</link>
	<description>Business, Communication, Technology</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: robert scott</title>
		<link>http://www.nevillehobson.com/2008/02/10/banning-coterminous-stakeholder-engagement/#comment-72725</link>
		<dc:creator>robert scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nevillehobson.com/2008/02/10/banning-coterminous-stakeholder-engagement/#comment-72725</guid>
		<description>Hello, just stumbled across this randomly, as you do on the web. 

I expect you have all moved on by now but as someone who makes their living from writing (journalism, tv, etc) what makes my blood boil about local authority or most other needless jargon in particular is the way it is used to over-complicate straightforward propositions. It becomes a lingua franca for a certain kind of bureaucrat which at once seeks to exclude everyone outside that bureaucratic loop and at the same time apparently enhances the status of the person using the language- until, of course, someone points out, emperor's new clothes style, that all this fancy polysyllabism (see? I can do it too) does not actually add anything at all to the meaning of the words that are in every day use. Oh, and it is aesthetically ugly into the bargain.

Using long words for the sake of it is not the preserve of clever people, Neville. On the contrary, it is a flimsy refuge for those who are so uncertain of their own language that they do not dare use it without dressing it up in those emperor's new clothes. A bit like the emperor, they end up sounding even more absurd.

There's one other point here which needs to be made. English is an incredibly rich language which draws its strength from its many diverse roots. Latin and Greek and the Romance languages, which is where a lot of the longer words come from, are fine. But the shorter chunkier words from Saxon and Germanic roots (dog, book, do, see) are just as good. IN fact, I'm rather a fan of single syllables. There is nothing "better" about using the word "herbivore" instead of saying "an animal which eats plants." Nor, to come back to where we came in, is there anything clever in itself about saying "coterminous" when you mean "ends in the same place".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, just stumbled across this randomly, as you do on the web. </p>
<p>I expect you have all moved on by now but as someone who makes their living from writing (journalism, tv, etc) what makes my blood boil about local authority or most other needless jargon in particular is the way it is used to over-complicate straightforward propositions. It becomes a lingua franca for a certain kind of bureaucrat which at once seeks to exclude everyone outside that bureaucratic loop and at the same time apparently enhances the status of the person using the language- until, of course, someone points out, emperor&#8217;s new clothes style, that all this fancy polysyllabism (see? I can do it too) does not actually add anything at all to the meaning of the words that are in every day use. Oh, and it is aesthetically ugly into the bargain.</p>
<p>Using long words for the sake of it is not the preserve of clever people, Neville. On the contrary, it is a flimsy refuge for those who are so uncertain of their own language that they do not dare use it without dressing it up in those emperor&#8217;s new clothes. A bit like the emperor, they end up sounding even more absurd.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s one other point here which needs to be made. English is an incredibly rich language which draws its strength from its many diverse roots. Latin and Greek and the Romance languages, which is where a lot of the longer words come from, are fine. But the shorter chunkier words from Saxon and Germanic roots (dog, book, do, see) are just as good. IN fact, I&#8217;m rather a fan of single syllables. There is nothing &#8220;better&#8221; about using the word &#8220;herbivore&#8221; instead of saying &#8220;an animal which eats plants.&#8221; Nor, to come back to where we came in, is there anything clever in itself about saying &#8220;coterminous&#8221; when you mean &#8220;ends in the same place&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: neville</title>
		<link>http://www.nevillehobson.com/2008/02/10/banning-coterminous-stakeholder-engagement/#comment-72141</link>
		<dc:creator>neville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nevillehobson.com/2008/02/10/banning-coterminous-stakeholder-engagement/#comment-72141</guid>
		<description>I agree, Dave, but this is about using words and phrases that are just jargon, not about dumbing down or being patronizing by using simpler alternatives.

That phrase in the post headline is a perfect example.

"Coterminous stakeholder engagement." Good grief! And if that's not patronizing, I don't know what is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, Dave, but this is about using words and phrases that are just jargon, not about dumbing down or being patronizing by using simpler alternatives.</p>
<p>That phrase in the post headline is a perfect example.</p>
<p>&#8220;Coterminous stakeholder engagement.&#8221; Good grief! And if that&#8217;s not patronizing, I don&#8217;t know what is.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Briggs</title>
		<link>http://www.nevillehobson.com/2008/02/10/banning-coterminous-stakeholder-engagement/#comment-72105</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Briggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 14:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nevillehobson.com/2008/02/10/banning-coterminous-stakeholder-engagement/#comment-72105</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure - as I said above, made-up management speak is vile and should be banned everywhere. But isn't it also patronising to assume that people aren't capable of understanding words of more than two syllables?! The english language is a wonderful thing, and I think that our ability to communicate would be much the poorer without the richness that it offers us, even if from time to time we have to turn to the dictionary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure - as I said above, made-up management speak is vile and should be banned everywhere. But isn&#8217;t it also patronising to assume that people aren&#8217;t capable of understanding words of more than two syllables?! The english language is a wonderful thing, and I think that our ability to communicate would be much the poorer without the richness that it offers us, even if from time to time we have to turn to the dictionary.</p>
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		<title>By: neville</title>
		<link>http://www.nevillehobson.com/2008/02/10/banning-coterminous-stakeholder-engagement/#comment-72084</link>
		<dc:creator>neville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nevillehobson.com/2008/02/10/banning-coterminous-stakeholder-engagement/#comment-72084</guid>
		<description>Is it really about dumbing down, Dave? It seems to me that it is or should be more about talking like normal people do without using words and phrases that a) make the speaker seem condescending or patronizing, and b) help the person listening to you actually understand what you're saying and so providing them with an opportunity to respond, ie, engage.

Heh! 'Engage' is one of the banned words...

Armin, I was the same: no idea at all what that word meant. I looked it up, too, and I still don't understand it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it really about dumbing down, Dave? It seems to me that it is or should be more about talking like normal people do without using words and phrases that a) make the speaker seem condescending or patronizing, and b) help the person listening to you actually understand what you&#8217;re saying and so providing them with an opportunity to respond, ie, engage.</p>
<p>Heh! &#8216;Engage&#8217; is one of the banned words&#8230;</p>
<p>Armin, I was the same: no idea at all what that word meant. I looked it up, too, and I still don&#8217;t understand it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Briggs</title>
		<link>http://www.nevillehobson.com/2008/02/10/banning-coterminous-stakeholder-engagement/#comment-72080</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Briggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 18:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nevillehobson.com/2008/02/10/banning-coterminous-stakeholder-engagement/#comment-72080</guid>
		<description>This topic has been banged around local government quite a bit for the last year or so, with various lists of "banned" words being circulated.

As with all plain english things, I'm in two minds. I mean, we all hate lazy and incomprehensible management speak and over use of jargon helps no one - especially in stakeholder engagement, whether coterminous or not.

But there is, I think, an argument to be made around dumbing down, isn't there? If we make all our communications completely understandable for people with the reading age of an 11 year old (or whatever the frankly pathetic average is in the UK) then where is the encouragement for anyone to actually improve their ability to read? Isn't the fact that Armin was motivated to get his dictionary out and discover a new word a good thing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This topic has been banged around local government quite a bit for the last year or so, with various lists of &#8220;banned&#8221; words being circulated.</p>
<p>As with all plain english things, I&#8217;m in two minds. I mean, we all hate lazy and incomprehensible management speak and over use of jargon helps no one - especially in stakeholder engagement, whether coterminous or not.</p>
<p>But there is, I think, an argument to be made around dumbing down, isn&#8217;t there? If we make all our communications completely understandable for people with the reading age of an 11 year old (or whatever the frankly pathetic average is in the UK) then where is the encouragement for anyone to actually improve their ability to read? Isn&#8217;t the fact that Armin was motivated to get his dictionary out and discover a new word a good thing?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Armin</title>
		<link>http://www.nevillehobson.com/2008/02/10/banning-coterminous-stakeholder-engagement/#comment-72078</link>
		<dc:creator>Armin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 15:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nevillehobson.com/2008/02/10/banning-coterminous-stakeholder-engagement/#comment-72078</guid>
		<description>Can I blame you that I've just wasted a valuable minute of my life getting out my dictionary and looking up what 'coterminous' actually means? That word was new to me, I must admit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can I blame you that I&#8217;ve just wasted a valuable minute of my life getting out my dictionary and looking up what &#8216;coterminous&#8217; actually means? That word was new to me, I must admit.</p>
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